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 Chris Gould Howls in negrado

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Christopher J Gould
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Registration date : 2008-03-17

PostSubject: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:28 am

One thing that always annoyed me about all of the other forums, (and sadly, i could see the AM going inevitable down this route too) was the forming of protective groups around certain individuals, companies or products. I do not intend to open old wounds here. But look at the case of Outlaw effects. Because they advertise on The Magic Cafe, they are exempt from criticism. All it takes is an email from Rick and a member is banned (ahem!), or a thread is pulled. Therefore all you can read is comments from people who Rick calls his 'posse' about the 'second to none' customer service and the overwhelming wonderfulness of everything they put out. I do not think that this sort of practice is healthy, certainly not for the consumer, and not for the forum or ultimately for Outlaw themselves. The truth is Rick has a good business, has put out some of the more interesting pieces of mentalism out there. He has also ripped off most of his collaborators and failed to deliver to his customers too many times. Outlaw could have been helped and made stronger by constructive criticism (which would have led to understanding and support), rather than consumers frustration over the constant drip of lies they were fed.
I do not have an axe to grind with Rick - he took the piss out of his creative relationship with me, and I ended not getting remunerated for a lot of work I did - but, hey - look mamma, I am all grown up - I can move on! So, I am not trying to put the knife into Outlaw, as the same unhealthy situation exists for anyone in our art - if we want it, and many do.

If our community only comprises of groups of people gently stroking each other's privates, we do not have a healthy situation.

This is one thing I would very much like to 'outlaw' here.

Let us get rid of the bullshit, the hyping, the automatic adoration and let us move forward.

OK, I have been a bad boy! I have mercilessly attacked many (and alas, had great fun doing so!) so I am by no means excluding myself from any of the shit that dirties our art. However, I had my motivations, believe me. Time will tell..........

However, like many, I am fed up with all of this.

I think that it is time that we all (including me) grew up.

We would all benefit if we pooled resources, supported each other took our art forward in a positive and adult manner. To do this we need to be open to constructive criticism too. We need to get rid of our posse's and join a broader community. Again if this is meant to happen, it will. If we are not ready yet (and who is to say that we are), it will not.

This is my dream for the Moon, it always has been.
I hope Negrado dies and becomes redundant. For the time being, it is needed.

If the time is right (and who is to say it is?) this group will exist - small, very slow growing; comprising of individuals who no longer want to take part in the idiocy we see played out elsewhere. People who want to spend their time more productively.


I am fed up with the hyping, the lack of constructive criticism.
I am fed up with the factions and warring groups.
(regardless of my prior participation) I am fed up with the negativity and nastiness of it all.


I hope you are too.............
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Kam Fanaian
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Age : 44
Location : Perth Australia
Registration date : 2009-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:19 am

Amen to that!!!

Kam
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http://www.dentalongeorge.com.au
reverend tristan
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
Registration date : 2009-12-30

PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:53 am

I know what you mean, I've had bad dealings with outlaw and I said my piece on the matter, left it to rest now I was just pissed off at the time.

I've got some good friends all wrapped up in something else right now and I don't want to be part of it at all. Not my fight at all.

I'd much rather just chat crap then be hurtful (and you will realise I chat a lot of crap Laughing )

But I think the nature of what we do, why we perform in the first place is egos, I don't have one really buty I perform to stroke what little I have of one, we all do if we're honest.

Go on give me the talk about being an entertainer first and about helping people, I'm there to entertain and to show people something different as well but I mainly to help me get over certain personal stuff.

But Egos are present and some people don't like theirs being dented and some just don't know how to back down at all so we get the things that are happening elsewhere.

Anyway rant over, here's to a nice friendly place Very Happy
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Christopher J Gould
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PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:02 pm

You hit the nail on the head with the ego issue.
This is the very problem - yes, of course we all get an ego buzz from what we do and this is why we do it. It feels gooood, right? The problem is, when we start to believe the character we have created is really us. This sort of psychological contamination is what makes for most of the unpleasantness.
Plus, the perennial problem that people talk very differently to each other when they are disembodied avatars.
This is why I very rarely visit forums anymore. It is also why I want this place to be very different.
There is a need for the Magic Cafe, it is the crack cocaine of mentalism. Go there for the addictive fix of reading what others have said about what YOU have said - or to sell stuff. There is also a need for what Ron is doing with the 'forum formally known as Moon'.
I think that this is what you were referring to. I suspect that most people who come here will also go to Ron's place - great! I hope both succeed and provide a different service.
If any of you do go there I would like the message to be put to them that there are no bad feeling from me - odd as that may sound, there really are none. I am more than happy to see some of the people from Ron's place coming here and vice versa. However, I will still stand by my post that kicked it all off (which was a strong response to a totally uncalled for attack on a personal friend).
All things happen for a reason. The whole thing has made me think and address a few issues, both personal and in thinking about how such pettiness can be avoided here. In the long run, I think the 'mentalist' community will be stronger.
I really think it is time for people to decide if they want to hang on to their emotional insecurities or move on.
We can all enjoy having an ego, it is only when we think we are our ego that the trouble starts......
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reverend tristan
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
Registration date : 2009-12-30

PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:20 pm

I know nothing of any other moon forum and that wasn't what I was refering to either, other syuff afoot with many of my friends but that doesn't matter.

I don't visit the cafe, think I signed up once but never went back there.

I visit 3 forums (4 now I guess) one of them is talkmagic, the others are very nice places with hardly any egos flying round, infact one of them I''ve never seen a bad word said agains anyone and that is why I'm still a member.
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Christopher J Gould
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PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:13 am

Sorry, displaying my old skill of jumping to conclusions - still, it is good to see that such places exist!
The forum I was referring to was http://www.mysteryperformers.com. This is a forum set up by the guys who used to be adims here. Message still stands that there are no hard feelings and in the wake of all this I am working hard to make the Moon a very different place (as we shall see) and one where unpleasantness is just irrelevant.
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ALEXANDRE
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Age : 52
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Registration date : 2008-03-14

PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:10 pm

I see it as people taking themselves way too seriously as well and getting all bent out of shape for little things.

System 44 generated that kind of wrath for me. It was a fun little parody on Docc Hilford's System 88 (a cool and workable parody) and I didn't mean to insult Docc at all, it's a parody created to have a little fun and to introduce a psychological game into mentalism that hadn't been introduced before, not unlike Docc did by using "The Cube".

I even mention in the introduction that System 44 "not as involved or evolved as Docc Hilford’s System 88 (recommended) but not too shabby either!" and that people should check System 88 out if they like this sort of thing.

But a couple of his friends attacked me hard on the Cafe, calling me a thief, insulting, etc. Even Docc, who I once had a real good laugh with at ring 45 in Miami when we both visited as guests, seemed to not be happy with it turning me down countless times as a friend on Facebook, and even taking a shot at me when he was last on the Cafe under the Special Guest for the Month section. I like Docc. I like his stuff, I have almost all of it. We have similar backgrounds in theater, we both live in South Florida, etc, too bad he seems to not like me over something like System 44.

Btw, if anyone wants System 44, let me know. Its exclusively available to Moon members.
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Christopher J Gould
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PostSubject: Re: Chris Gould Howls in negrado   Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:26 am

Ha! Ha! - I like the final line.......

I like Docc as he is so tall.......
But I think he missed something here - all publicity is good publicity. I got Alex's parody and found it really usable - so, this led me to buy Docc's (rather expensive book, seeing that he is using a preexisting system anyhow). I would never have bought Sytem 88, were it not for Sytem 44 - furthermore, this has led me on to the idea of writing 'System 22' which will be a decidedly shabby version of the good Docc's work - oh, and before any of you start thinking about putting out 'System 11', or 'System 5 1/2' I have them copyrighted. However, there is no copyright on 'System 2 1/4' - but I would check with Docc first.
I agree with Alex - everyone should 'get the stick out of their arse' (as my old mother would say) - and enjoy life a little.

What I am trying to say is - Docc - love your stuff. Parody is the beautiful girl flattery in a mucky dress.
Come and join us.........
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