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reverend tristan
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
Registration date : 2009-12-30

PostSubject: Marked cards for readings   Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:43 pm

Is anyone out there using marked cards at all for readings?

There are two sides to this coin, some say it is wrong as it's not being true. You can get the sitter to cut the deck till a good card is on top so the get a positive reading. All well and good when in a entertainment setting but a bit wrong when doing legit readings for money.

The other side says go for it use every thing you can to make the reading right.

So I'm throwing this out there to see what people have to say.
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ALEXANDRE
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Age : 52
Location : South Florida
Registration date : 2008-03-14

PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:07 pm

As a mentalist i have very often "manipulated" readings. "The Black School" and "Scoring With the Tarot" includes routines where Tarot card readings are manipulated.

I wrote about a recent experience I had in another section of the Moon, though I didn't use marked cards - http://alchemymoon.heavenforum.org/albino-f23/update-t878.htm


On a related note, let me share a little "marked card" something from my Black School book (currently unavailable). It is a revised version. Simple but effective. If anyone has any ideas for improvements, post away:


THE FORTUNE TELLER’S APPRENTICE (revised)

This is a one-on-one, fun and casual, reading/performance. It should be done slowly, with intention, as if you were actually feeling the information as it arrives.

For this routine you may choose to either interpret the cards that come up by using Cartomancy, or memorize some required lines, which will be worth the effort. More on this later.

The performer begins:

"I am quite familiar with Tarot card readings but I’ve been recently learning how to read regular playing cards as well with a psychic friend of mine who does Cartomancy readings.

Go ahead and shuffle the cards please."



Once that’s done take the deck and spread it face-down ahead of your spectator.


"Clear your mind and push five cards towards me, separating one of those five to the side here...."


Turn over four cards (or two or three if you choose to speed up the process) and go straight into interpreting the cards that have showed up, leaving the one separated card to the side for now. If you don't know how to interpret the cards, you can memorize and recite the script below. But wait! There's a special ending with the card that was initially set aside, their Fortune Card! More later.

So ... interpret the cards, if you don't know how to do that, memorize and recite this:

"You pride yourself in being an independent thinker and you usually don’t accept people’s opinions without some sort of proof … at times I get the feeling you have doubts as to whether you’ve made the right decisions or done the right thing … you really have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage … and though you seem controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and somewhat insecure on the inside … I see a serious love interest in your past and I also see that a third person complicated things … I see some financial concerns, you want to change this … I see changes within the next … four to six months…."

The above lines are called "subjective validations" that hold true to almost anyone as we inherently find ways to match ourselves up with the description given. Some of these lines come from the "Forer Effect Personality Test". I came up with a couple of the other lines.

For the ending, you will secretly read the back of the separated card and mention the following:

"I also get the feeling ... based on what I’ve learned from my psychic friend and her years of fortune telling with cards … that considering the cards that came up here ... your fortune card for this reading is the (whatever card). If this is the card you intuitively moved to the side here before we started, you’ll have wonderful news in the coming months and you'll be blessed with a boost of healing energy that will bring you peace, happiness and balance. Do you believe you separated your Fortune Card? Well, let's take a look, turn the card over...."

Naturally, for this fun, casual reading, you'll have plenty of time to read the back of that initially separated card as you interpret the other cards in the reading. It's also very natural to look at the card as they push it to the side, so you should have no problems reading the back of the "Fortune Card".

For this simple reading routine I like to use the Ted Lesley Marking System, it's a set of specially printed "transfers" that you place on your cards in a specific location. I like these because, whilst well hidden, they are easy to read.

Boris Wild is good too, but harder to read from a distance.


On a side note I'm in the process of thinking about revamping my entire Black School book for a future "Black School Class of 2010" version. I've talked to Chris about this a couple of times, but I'm not sure yet as we have a lot of other projects coming out in 2010. If so, this will be further discussed in an inner section of Alchemy Moon. But if you have any ideas with the above routine, post it here or let me know, if I go forward with the book, you will be appropriately credited.
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Christopher J Gould
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Registration date : 2008-03-17

PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:14 am

I am glad that Alexandre has made this little post, as it shows that we are intent on providing content here. Obviously, we are in the process of setting up and getting a bit of content up - no one has been actually asked to join yet - and we are planning for a very small discerning audience. But, when we are up and running, all of this stuff will be housed in the inner forum, to keep out the merely curious.

I am also glad that Alex has let the cat's head out of the bag in regards to a future project.
Some time ago, Alex released a book that I still have a fondness for called 'Black School' - it received positive reviews from the likes of Banachek and went on to sell by the ship-load. Many people have asked me where Alexandre came by his somewhat sizable fortune - I am not saying that it is entirely due to this book, as he has several sources of income - but international sales of the 'The Black School' certainly bought the swimming pool!
Then for reasons that seem frankly mad to me, Alexandre took it off the market.
Well, now........ well it is probably better that he explains himself.......

Over to you Alexandre.......
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reverend tristan
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
Registration date : 2009-12-30

PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:23 am

See thats fine as it's an entertainment based reading, people weren't paying you $40 for that reading were they? Or I hope they weren't.

It reminds me of a routine of a friend of mine where he gives a reading with cards for the 4 seasons of the year.

Now there's an idea first card is first 3 months of year second next 3 months and so on. The 5th card could be a summery of the year or a summery of next year.

Oh and just gone back over that post Alex and noticed you were in Sheffield, only down the road from there. Looks like you've got a new stalker mate lol
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Christopher J Gould
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:28 am

Hey Rev - I am just down the road in Staffordshire!

BTW, I am sure that Alexandre will be here to say this himself, but all the stuff in the BS ( Laughing ) is strictly meant for 'magical' performance. No, you certainly would not use it in a 'serious' reading.
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ALEXANDRE
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:07 pm

Well .... it's not ALL BS because you're actually reading four of the cards, but the routine it certainly an entertainment based reading/performance to be done casually with the mates or for paying clients before or after a mentalism performance at a party or something like that, but not as an actual psychic reading ... I have other stuff for that. geek


As far as the Black School ... I'm not sure yet what to do with it, but I'm leaning towards creating a "Class of 2010" edition. I would love to have all kinds of input on it, discussions, brainstorming, make it a real Alchemy Moon project with everyone involved getting credit for their input. I think such a thing would be really fun to discuss and experiment with, but we'll see, I'm not even sure how to set up such a thing on here....

Regardless, any ideas on the above routine would be appreciated.
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Christopher J Gould
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:25 pm

I must point out the BS in this context refers to 'Black School' and not 'Black Saturday', or our forthcoming release; 'Burnt Sausages', or the project that I am working on without Alexandre's knowledge; 'Bag 'o Socks'.
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:00 pm

You guys are funny.

I would be interested in knowing the other stuff you have for actual psychic readings, Alexandre. I agree also that someone wouldn't charge $40 for the reading mentioned here, but I do $8 readings all the time as well and I don't see why someone wouldn't charge something like that for a four card reading with that kind of ending. It is a mixture of an actual reading with a special kind of ending and though I wouldn't use it like that, I don't see why it wouldn't work at psychic fairs for instance. I feel people would be intrigued by that ending.

I would also love to be involved in the project for the Class of 2010 Black School. Please let me know about it if it happens.

Julia
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ALEXANDRE
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:12 am

Julia, what do you mean "funny"? Funny like a clown? clown

Anyway, I'm not sure what to do with the Black School thing yet, so yes, I will let everyone know when and if.

The other stuff I have for actual psychic readings are mainly Astragalomancy (which is an actual reading system and I use it for quick readings), and Tarot card readings, which I can "manipulate" in various different ways, or will often use in combination with a mysterious "kicker" as described before.

But I do readings mostly as part of a mentalism performance. In other words, if I'm doing a corporate event, or private party, I will often do quick readings as part of it while mingling or when table-hopping, or even set up a little corner to do quick readings either before or after a performance. I rarely just do readings on their own.

Also Julia, I would be interested in knowing how you go about using mentalism in your readings since you are a professional reader. You mentioned you do this before sometimes in order to guarantee a positive result for a client. So I am curious as to what kinds of effects you use in combination with your psychic work, how do you go about it? Do you use any commercial effects we all know? Do you use billets? Marked cards? Magnets? Cold reading? I would appreciate you sharing your ideas if you're not giving away any trade secrets.
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reverend tristan
Neophyte
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
Registration date : 2009-12-30

PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:15 pm

Alex (hope you don't mind me calling you Alex?)

Please don't take my above post the wrong way Very Happy

I think I was trying to see if anyone uses marked cards in a psychic reading at all and was just saying that that wouldn't be the type of reading people would pay for. (Looking back I sounded like a right dick Very Happy )

As we're all about sharing I'll post my tarot routine in a short while when I've wrote it up.

When I'm doing 'Readings' I always try to use Herb Dewys T.H.E. S.C.A.M. when I can Very Happy
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agnostiker74
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:06 am

I don't see any problems at all in using marked cards. It is our job to entertain people, sow why should it be unethical to use marked cards to get to the results we want to achieve? I don't think that there is anybody around (with a magic/mentalism backround) who really believe in this supernatural things. Sow why take a risk and get a "bad" card/reading, especially if the customer has knowledge of the tarot? It is a risk where it is not useful. I don't do Tarot work, because it is not my personal style, even if I have a lot of material in this field.
I also would like to mention a Jeff Mcbride routine where he uses the cut deeper force (I think it is on the "Magic of Jeff McBride).

Best

Agnostiker74
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reverend tristan
Neophyte
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:50 am

Agnostiker74 wrote:
I don't think that there is anybody around (with a magic/mentalism backround) who really believe in this supernatural things.

You'd be suprised how many do Very Happy
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agnostiker74
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:19 am

Don't destroy my illusion Tristan Wink
I also heard that there are some people turned away from the magic field into the esoteric sector...
Sad but true and in my opinion dangerous, but this would be another topic to discuss...
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:03 am

Agnostiker74, I don't have a magic background, I have a psychic background, and like I explained before, I use magical techniques every now and then. I take some offense to you saying that no one with a magic background believes in supernatural things. Though I don't have a magical background, I know many of the techniques, and I do believe in supernatural things, in psychic ability, in communicating with spirits and and many other things. I have experienced them and I can assure you they exist.

Just to make clear, I want everyone to know that I am a psychic reader first and foremost. I just because I find magic techniques interesting and useful in some of my work, does not mean I am a fraud, a cheat, or a liar.

I hope this doesn't turn into a place where psychics are not welcome. I am here with the best intention to learn, to share and to discuss things, but I won't stay if I'm going to be ridiculed and attacked.

Julia
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agnostiker74
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:16 am

Dear Julia,

I have no intention at all to attack you (my name is not James Randi Wink ).
I just don't believe in the esoteric at all, but this is my personal opinion and there is no reason why you should share my point of view.
I'm a sceptic and very well experienced in the field of the esoteric and supernatural but as I wrote in the beginning, whom am I to tell you what is right or wrong?!
So once again, no personal attack just my point of view.

Best from Germany

Agnostiker74
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dennper
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Age : 57
Location : Mead, Colorado USA
Registration date : 2009-12-28

PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:44 am

Greetings,

I have two decks that I use that are marked, although I don't really find a reason to use the marking system in a reading, I just like the decks and they came that way. The exception to this is to know where the Death card is, and even with a deck that isn't marked I tick this card so I can see it coming. I took this advice from several of the sages that if you are going to leave the card in (and I don't think I would ever want to leave it out unless I was doing an entertainment only reading for a young person) then you probably at least want to be aware that it is about to be turned over so you can preface it appropriately as needed.

Thanks!
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reverend tristan
Neophyte
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Location : Nottinghamshire, England
Registration date : 2009-12-30

PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:38 pm

Agnostiker74 wrote:
Don't destroy my illusion Tristan Wink
I also heard that there are some people turned away from the magic field into the esoteric sector...
Sad but true and in my opinion dangerous, but this would be another topic to discuss...

I see more and more all the time turning to the esoteric, can't see why it's dangerous though?
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agnostiker74
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:10 pm

I see one main danger. There are some people who search for real help. Think of people with psychic problems. Most of the readers don't have the education to handle with such a kind of problems. Please don't misunderstand me. I don't want to say that anyone of the members of this forum don't handle or treat their clients with care!
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reverend tristan
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:55 pm

Do you mean psychic or psychiatric?
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agnostiker74
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:40 pm

Excuse my rather bad english, of course I meant psychiatric.
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reverend tristan
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:42 pm

Yes I can see what you mean, but (and I'm not attacking psychics here) do all psychic readers have the right training to deal with these people? Answer no.

Only someone that had worked in that field could.

I lost my job as a support worker for adults with learning difficulties in Nov so I have worked in this field with people that have these problems but I'm not trained to help them. It's a sad fact that alot of people with mental health problems can go un diagnosed or even mis-diagnosed for years.

So in that way all readers are floored then I guess?

All we can do as readers is hope that we have helped the person in the right direction and if I felt someone might need that sort of help I would help them in that way.

Not trying to cause a fight here just disscussing thing Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:13 pm

I believe I offer real help. But if in real help you mean as a psychologist or psychiatrist then no, but I do help.

I have many times turned people towards other help. I can only do what I can do, so when I see that a person needs a different type of help, I help them move in that direction.

So what I do is not dangerous at all. I don't like being painted with a broad brush. Some cops are crooked, most are good. A gun in the hands of one person can be very dangerous, yet in the hand of another, it saves lives. It is all objective from my view and some people choose to look at psychics negatively.

In our business, my aunt and I have psychologists, drug counselors, accountants, lawyers, and even police officers, we sometimes refer people to. We as psychics don't have access to all of the answers, but we do the best we can to answer people's questions and to help them.

I am not interested in continuously defending my position as a working psychic, I came here because I believe we can share magic information, experiences, and techniques that would be helpful to psychics and non psychics. I believe my experiences as a psychic can help those who are interested in that field, or performing like a psychic for entertainment, and I believe your experiences as entertainers can help me in my psychic practice and work. Don't forget, I read at corporate events and parties too!

I hope we can head a discussion in that direction.


Julia
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Freddie Valentine
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:59 am

I use tarot cards in my bizarre magick act and I also have used marked ones for readings.

In the UK, the law states that things such as tarot readings should be for "entertainment purposes" (which covers your ass) and people tend to come for readings for two reasons. The first and obvious one is for guidance (or cosmic counselling as I like to refer to it) and the secondary one is that they wish to have a "psychic" experience.

Often the people that come for readings are generally believers in psychic powers/ the paranormanl or curious folks on the fence who need that push to fully believe. I give them that push.

The main objective for me when I give a reading is that the sitter leaves happy and satisfied and litte touches which add to ambience do tend to give you the advantage over other tarot readers (shut-eye's) as they truly believe you are psychic as you have done some things they can't explain. As it's not in the context of a "magic show" they are certainly not looking for methods and wouldn't think anything other than you are doing what you claim to do.

I don't overuse marked cards. That's too much, but during a reading I reveal a few before they are turned.
"Looking at the cards so far, and where you life is heading, I should expect the next card to be XXXXXX" etc.


It can be effective when, like with all things that are enjoyably dangerous, it's used in moderation.
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reverend tristan
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:27 am

Julia please don't take my post as an attack on you, I said I wasn't attacking psychic, Agnostiker74 was basicly saying that entertainers that turn to readings are dangerous as they don't know how to deal with some people. I said that means all readers are floored then.

This post has taken a turn away from what I started out to ask.

So most people here are happy to use marked cards for legit readings.

Thats that sorted then Very Happy
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agnostiker74
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PostSubject: Re: Marked cards for readings   Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:43 am

This topic is turning away from the starting point...
But anyway, and without attacking anybody...

"I can only do what I can do, so when I see that a person needs a different type of help, I help them move in that direction."
And this is the problem. How do you recognize that somebody has a real problem? I really believe, that you do your best to help people. But if you do readings beside the entertainment way, and offer real help what is your education to offer such kind of help? How do you handle this responsibility for the decisions some body is making caused by your reading?

And once again, this no personal attack!

Best from Germany

Agnostiker74
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