Too much like magic?

I have been, for the past year, devleloping and refining a routine which is, for want of a better word "bizarre magick", or to be more precise "paranormal magic".

However, in presenting this routine, I wish for it to be seen as serious phenonema rather than a "trick". I know the majority of thought making it so falls in the area of the presentation, but there are a few forces included to acheive what I wish within the piece.

Without going into too much detail on it publicly, there are two foces used.

One is a variation on that used in Luna and WM (I think it's Larry Becker's Reflect-A-Thot - may be wrong so if someone can correct me that would be great as I intend to seek permission/credit) and the other is the PATEO force.

Now I know the first one is perfectly usable in a routine such as this (the premise is that spirits of ghosts guide the participant towards the outcome), but do you think the PATEO force reeks of a magician's mode of presentation?

Or would like kind of thing, in the context of 'intuition' and being 'guided' seem quite feasible to an audience?


Your comments and thoughts would be much appreciated.

I Dont think the PATEO force reeks of a magicians trick at all. I think it may seem taht way to you because you are aware ofthe origins and various uses it can and has been put to.

But i would say for the lay public this is not an issue really. Some may be aware of it, but with the right scripting it can still be very well hidden and effective.

yeah i agree.

So many times I have been blinded by my newbie eyes and gone 'oh they are so gonna see thorough that' but ya know the amount of times ive been wrong. One of my fave routines ive watched several times live involves a Pateo of sorts and ya know, it hits strong. No-one calls on it. And I eat humble pie - again lol..

E x

Thanks all.

I am about to write a full script for the routine I am working on and the Pateo does acheive the outcome far more easier than the previous method I was considering.

I am hoping that in the context of a psychic/spirit themed routine that it could be feasible that the participant was 'guided' to the outcome.

[quote="Christopher J Gould"]The pateo can be very powerful still, however it all depends upon performance.


It is ALL about the performance, storyline and entertainment - in whichever vein it is delivered.
Emotion may be important too - but the effects are essentailly incidental so as to retain the mystery.

For a presentation premise to succeed as strange or otherworldy it needs to be performed as such, the nature of Bizarre is that it encapsulates the theatre of 'magick' in the presentation. Yes, without this, it is simply magic. Is that a bad thing? Only the audience/spectator can tell you. Overall the audience seek entertainment - you are the entertainer (in whichever guise).

We all respect the experience of our peers, but they once met with the same challenges also and you will find that they still do today. If we love our art we will always feel we can do better ....


I am sure The Curator can add more ...

Good post.
The concern for me, is that upon creating an atmosphere, that something may appear too "magiciany" and bring people out of that bubble of belief you have led them into.

Spending some time thinking about this, I do think the PATEO force is something that would allay any suggestions of trickery at work as it does, to all intents, seem incredibly fair.

Keep things simple. The PATEO force can be a very effective and decptive force, again depending on how it is presented.
If you sell yourself as a 'kids magician' it will appear like an age old 'force' where they quickly realise they were duped. You know what I mean ...

Anyway you will always get skeptics in the audience makeup - and they seemingly only watch our art so they can tell their non skeptic friencs how it was done - who cares what they think - they are not there to be entertained, and they are not being paid to do the gig youy are doing !



Qualia = Explain ..

A little bit of time delay or similar direction of attention will enable PATEO or pretty much any force to go unnoticed. I've even seen someone force an object that THEY selected themselves and have everyone later convinced they had a free choice. Not sure I'd always get away with that but being brave can be exciting at times. Maybe not something to be used as a method in a sold effect perhaps.

PATEO is like the Cut Deeper Force, a contrived way of freely selecting something but a perfectly plausible ritual/game. I don't think it's magicianlike -- conventional conjurers don't line up to do Robert Neale's 'Soul Survivor'.

I've recently ordered a book on games and divination (microcosms relating to the macrocosm), Nigel Pennick's Secret Games of the Gods, which Mary Tomich listed in her second catalogue . . .

This sounds to be a very interesting book - perhaps just from the title - I must look it up.

Freddie,

I use the PATEO force and Becker's idea in the same show, one shortly after the other. I would be willing to share my scripting and/or performance of that routine. PM or email me if interested.